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Below are the 16 most recent journal entries recorded in Poly Parents' LiveJournal:

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Friday, March 25th, 2011
7:33 am
Being Poly and Adoption Advice request
Hello, all.

I posted this note at the polyamory LJ community and it was suggested that I come here. (I modified the post a bit, due to thinking more.)

My husband and I are hoping to have children, either from our bodies and/or by adoption. We are also poly.

We live in the San Francisco Bay Area and are looking to adopt from within California through the public system (CPS).

Have any of you dear folks had experience with adoption agencies - anywhere, of any kind - and in sharing your family structure?

Our household consists of just the two of us, with our two cats. I have a boyfriend (who lives with his wife and children); my husband "dates" his computer, at present.

We are not trying to spark a debate of any type; suffice it to say that we have thought through many of the ramifications of having children and that we have the means to support them, financially, emotionally and socially. Nor do I wish to stir up the mono vs. poly issues.

We are looking for knowledge or experience that would guide us in how much to say and how to say it.

If you wish to contact us privately, please email us at happy . us . 02 @ gmail . com (minus the spaces).

Thank you.

Current Mood: thoughtful
Monday, September 13th, 2010
3:21 pm
Polyday UK
For those in range of UK, the next UK Polyday will be in Bristol on 20th November.
See: http://imakeawesome.co.uk/polyday/
A one-day event held in Bristol for everyone who knows that happy and honest relationships don't have to be monogamous, Polyday combines a day of discussions and an evening of cabaret and socialising to give you a chance to meet like-minded people, to build our community and to celebrate its diversity.
Tuesday, June 1st, 2010
8:08 pm
I'm considering moving in with my partner and his wife. They have an established household that includes a three-year-old; I am currently pregnant with his second child, my first. I'd love your advice. Have you moved into an established household before? Do you have any recommendations, or dos and don'ts? I'd read a really great article on this subject before that I can no longer find. Extensive googling hasn't turned it up. Do you know of any good articles on cohabiting, whether poly-specific or not?


[cross-posted to polyamory  and polyfamilies ]
Tuesday, June 2nd, 2009
10:46 am
Looking for a book to help explain things to my new step-son
My new stepson (I'm a female in a relationship with his mother) understands his mom and I are in a poly relationship, and we did our best to explain what that means. At first, he was terrified me and the man I have lived with for 11 years were going to break up. We assured him that that was very unlikely to happen. But are there any books about polyamory written for children, that explain what it is (or discussing the concept of responsible non-monogamy and would reinforce the idea that his mother and I are just as committed to each other as a mono couple would be, and that the guy I have been living with and I are as committed to each other as any couple who'd been living together for 11 years would be) that would be appropriate for his age? I'd say he reads on about the level of a 12 year old, so something for 12 year olds or younger, even 5 year olds, would be great. Something like, you know, "Michelle has 2 daddies and 3 mommies" or whatever :)

I have been searching online, brick and mortar new and used bookstores, amazon, and had no luck, so I really hope you guys have some ideas. If not an actual book, maybe a PDF or something I can print for him. I just want something more for him than our verbal reassurances, for him to know he's not the only kid in a situation like this, something he can look at when we aren't around, that sort of thing. But it seems there MUST be some kind of book explaining poly to kids, since it's something they go through right along with us...

anyway, any help or pointers would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance.

Current Mood: happy
Monday, February 16th, 2009
6:42 pm
Guess whose son is going to the Arts Institute of Portland!

I'm cross posting this all over the place. He'll be living with his girlfriend and her other boyfriend.
Wednesday, January 7th, 2009
1:09 am
Polyamory and the different variants of love
'Love' encompasses a wide range of emotions. Any variant of love is characterized by a feeling of 'softness'. There are 2 component emotions, which can act either alone or in combination, to produce love. Those component emotions are oneness and humility.

In a love relationship, the emotion of oneness, if it is present in the relationship, causes the behaviors of telling eachother everything about oneself and one's recent events, always telling the truth, not keeping secrets, and doing everything together or otherwise always keeping in contact. The emotion of oneness can also be detected in the tone of voice when in the company of eachother.

In a love relationship, the emotion of humility, if it is present in the relationship, causes a gentle weakness in one's regard to eachother, and this is expressed both in one's demeanor toward eachother and in one's manner of affection. One behavior that humility is conducive to is bowing, though this of course is not a behavior that is associated with love relationships, though there is the antiquated behavior of bowing while kissing a woman on the back of the hand.

Exclusive monoamory is based upon egotistical dominant-territorialism, which is the opposite of humility. Therefore, people whose love is of the exclusive monoamorous sort can not incorporate humility into their love, but only oneness. It must be noted that one's egotism is only frustrated when one shares one's partner(s) with other people, not when oneself has multiple partners. Even among polyamorists, polygyny is somewhat more common than polyandry, because males are the more egotistical gender on the average.

Dominant egotism does not always express itself in a given particular way, such that there is some chance that a given egotistical person shares (or is willing to share) one's love partner(s) with others. For example, egotism, when combined with oneness, causes the behavior of libellously ascribing egotism to the logical behavior of acknowledging fundamental definitions and distinctions between different ways of living or beliefs. -That is an egotistical behavior that is sometimes displayed by polyamorists.

It is likely though that a given person that shares ones partner(s) lacks dominant egotism. That would allow such a person to use humility as a component of their love, or to use love that is purely humility-derived, such that it does not incorporate oneness at all.
Sunday, December 14th, 2008
10:37 am
Friday, October 17th, 2008
4:11 pm
A few months ago I made 2 posts about my son and his net relationship with a woman twice his age. Here and here. The condensed update is that they did have a real life meeting over the summer and they continue to talk on a daily basis.

Just when I think to myself, "Okay it isn't really that bad and you blew everything out of proportion", something new pops up.
First my son decided he wanted to finish his senior year in public school with his friends. I am very proud of him for making this decision. It would have been too easy for him to decide to get his GED and not finish. He does have a pretty good head on his shoulders.

There isn't insurance against train wrecksCollapse )
Friday, September 19th, 2008
8:54 am
Loving someone so much it hurts

Sorry if I haven't been posting lately, but we have been going through a lot.  In posting this, I might be making my darling wife angry, but I need to get feedback.  I know she likes to keep certain things private, but I need to discuss this and at least be heard, even if by some search engine.

Tia and I love each other a lot, and we always have.  We have had some small issues and some big issues, and for the longest time, we swept a lot of the issues under the rug.  They festered and caused a lot of problems, and over the last 2 years we have been digging to get as many of those issues dealt with.  It has been a hard road, and both of us thought we were making a lot of progress.  We have both caused each other some amount of grief, and have had hard parts to our lives before we met each other.

I haven't been an angel in this, but I haven't been the devil either.  We have both been working through issues and have made a lot of progress.  That is, until June.  In June we found out that I had a job offer with a company in Copenhagen, which I am now working at.  Right about the same time, Tia found someone in her Wiccan group that she liked and wanted to meet at a pagan event where nudity was involved.  I hadn't been to the place, hadn't met the guy, didn't know anything about him, and she wanted to go, get to know him, and basically get laid by him.  There was a lot of miscommunication about the events of that day, but instead of a fling, which I think I could have dealt with, she came back saying that she wanted to start a relationship with him.

At that point, looking on the road ahead, I could see that it was going to be stressful.  Packing up, moving to another country, starting a new job, dealing with the kids and temporary housing... it was going to be a stress filled summer.  I communicated clearly that I thought it was a bad idea, due to the stress, and I got back from her that it was me trying to keep her from growing.  I tried to make her see my point, but after a couple of fights and some moping on her part, I gave in.  Whether or not she was moping, it felt like she was blaming me for not allowing her to progress further in life, while to me she was not listening to me.  She pointed out that on our first foray into poly, I was not listening to her, and it felt like she was trying to justify her reaction by equating it to an event in my life that I have out and out admitted was one of the stupidest things I have done.

The relationship turned out to add multiples of stress to an already stressful summer.  It felt that she was so anxious to have someone other than me provide some sense of desire to her life, that she was not listening to me more and more.  I was in pain and trying to deal with it, and she could see it.  She has always had some low self-esteem, and she had started complaining that I should find someone better than her, as she was not what I needed.  The way she phrased it, it was not in the poly sense of complimenting, it was in the mono sense of replacing.

But during our conversations about it, it felt like she was belittling me for asking for respect from her guy.  She openly stated a number of times that I was just trying to impede her growth, and no one would ever be able to respect me enough.  We had fights over it, and she started getting more distant.  Every time she defended him and his lack of respect, it felt like she was taking another step away.  She asked a number of times if I wanted her to leave, and the number of times she complained that I should find someone better increased.  As all of that increased, I felt that she was starting to slide into depressing, closing in on herself and getting more and more into a dark hole she was adamant that she could dig herself out of.

Was I an angel during this time? Relationship wise, there was only Tia.  Due to the stress, some of the issues that I had been doing better on before the summer fell by the wayside.  So I tried my hardest, and had issues.  In addtion to all the stress Tia was experiencing, there was also the extra relationship, and me doing my own retreating.  Each time we got into a fight, I retreated a bit, convinced that I had to let Tia grow and sacrifice myself, because that was the only way to make her happy.  Once her relationship had started, the pain of her not listening was already done, and I felt that if I would have not tried to make progress in dealing with my issues, I was not loving Tia.  All of this time, she thought I was retreating

About a week before we left, she saw him one last time, and when she came back she said she finally saw that he was not respecting me.  She still spent time talking and kissing with him that night, but she told me that when she got home.  At the same time, we were both withdrawing from each other: me because it felt like she wasn't listeneing to me about her new friend and lack of respect, her because she thought I was trying to impeded her growth.

Since moving to Denmark, the stress has grown a bit, but has started to level off.  Tia's immigration papers are still pending and having had to deal with the stress of having the kids home all summer has not helped.  We both have had issues dealing with the time change, and we have both been sharp with the kids and each other.   But due to the time before we arrived here, instead of being there for each other, we turned on each other and kept on fighting.  I don't think either one of us meant to do it, we just fell back into bad patterns that we had established long ago, and resurfaced due to the high stress levels.

Because of the stress, my stomache has acted up a lot and made me grumpy.  Because of the stress and issues, Tia has felt more and more depressed, and her libido has disappeared.  While in my mind I understand that it is a factor of depression, having battled it unsuccessfully for years before Tia helped me, in my heart it felt like she was pushing me away even more and blaming me for her failed relationship.  For what its worth, I am autistic and have battled depression for a lot of my life, and she has Croehn and has also battled it for a fair part of her life.  Both of us have communication issues, but both of us love each other a lot.

The other night, we got into a massive fight.  This one has dragged on for 2 days.  After hearing her ask to leave a number of times and having her comment that I should find someone better than her (mono way), not someone to compliment her (poly way), when she asked me the other morning, I told her that if she wanted to leave, she should.  It was said in anger, pure and simple.  After a knuckle dragging fight where she asked me 3 times, I finally responded.

Was that the smartest thing? No.  Am I sorry about it? Mostly.  I think that at that point I needed to say something to make sure she would understand how hurt and in pain I was.  Between having her not listening, withdrawing from me and us, and thinking that she was slipping into depression, I needed to say something. 

There is some good to this.  We both know we love each other.  We started talking again, and once again, we laid a lot of cards out on the table.  We both admit we need to work on communiction.  We both admit that we felt that we were talking and the other wasn't listening.  We both know that we need to deal with these issues and others.  We both know we are tired of the fighting.  We both know that when we get stressed, our higher brains shut down and our established patterns start winning out.

We started last night by making a list in OpenOffice writer about what we think all the issues are, and are also going to work on one of expectations.  I know it sounds pedantic, but we think that having the issues spelled out will help.  I want to nuture a healthy relationship and make sure we deal with the rest of the issues, but I admit I don't always think clearly about the best way to tackle these issues.

Can anyone offer kindly advice and help?  I love Tia dearly, and want help in dealing with these issues.  I really want to make sure that we have as many good ideas on how to progress as possible to give us the best chance to deal with everything.  I want to make sure that I change to be a better person and spouse, and believe that Tia also wants the same thing.

Any advice on similar situations or thoughts on either side are welcome.

Saturday, July 26th, 2008
10:14 am
I want to thank all who were so helpful a while back. We decided to move in together for a short time. We spent a month making a room for him and knitting the family together. His two boys have come to stay with us twice since he's moved in. When they're gone it's pretty quiet around here. As well it will be when it's time for him to move on. Consideration for joining him in the future when my husband's job allows it is spinning around... Maybe it will be tougher than we thought to go back to being a nuclear family of five again, instead if eight, sniff....
Tuesday, July 8th, 2008
7:53 am
Florida Poly Retreat Work Weekend
  Hello Everyone!

 We're trying to find out the feasibility of having a Florida Poly Family Work Weekend at the Retreat Center where the Florida Poly Retreat is held each year.

 The idea is to have folks arrive with their families on Friday night, do some work around the Retreat center during Saturday morning and early afternoon, then have some fun activity time in the late afternoon, followed by dinner and and evening activities.  Everyone would go home on Sunday.

 Our Retreat facility does need to have work done on it, and if you would be able to come to help us work on the facility on Friday or even on Thursday, that would be appreciated, too!  You don't have to have kids to come, but we wanted to give poly folks with children a chance to get together, talk to folks who face similar situations as they do, and network together.  It also gives the kids a chance to make friends with other poly-family kids!

 The idea of this weekend is to help the UU in the Pines (our Retreat Facility) to spruce up their grounds in an effort to make things better for everyone that uses the facilities.  We've done this in the past, and have been able to stay free of charge and have been able to use the kitchen facilities to cook for ourselves.  So essentially the weekend would be free of monetary charge, but everyone would be required to work in some capacity for the betterment of the center or for support of those that are there working.

 Does this sound like something that you or someone you know with a poly family with children would be interested in?  If so, please reply to the group and let us know things like:

 1/  What dates do your kids go back to school?

 2/  What are the ages of your children (if you are wanting to bring them).

 3/ Are you willing to kid-sit or be in charge of kid's activities so the adults and older children can work on the facilities?

 These are just a few starter questions.  I hope as things come together we'll be able to firm up ideas.

 We look forward to hearing from you!

 Your Florida Poly Retreat Staff

 Meren, Alicia, Richard, Jeffery, Josie, Lauren,  Judy, and Zhanna (so far!  If you want to be on Staff for FPR 2009, please do let us know!)

Cross-posted to a few poly communities.

Current Mood: creative
Friday, May 9th, 2008
4:55 pm
I want to thank everyone who commented yesterday on my post regarding my son and his net ship. Even those whose comments with which I didn't agree.
I react to this as me thinking I was protecting him, along the same lines of me taking his car away because he was driving too fast, or limiting the amount of junk food in the house because I want us to eat healthier. The advice I got from lj communities and from my real life friends helped me realize that was the wrong approach. Mainly because there there are human emotions involved here and that I was trying to punish my son for something he did wrong, which really isn't the case.

I did have a long talk with my boyfriend last night. I have to admit, he is more rational and logical than I am, though this will be the last time I ever admit that. :) He does care about my children and he considers them his own, he introduces them as his son and daughter. He is not happy with the situation either but along with the advice I recieved, we did come to some basic conclusions.

In all reality I may be able to limit the time my son spends on the internet, but that isn't going to stop him from having this relationship. It wasn't that long ago that I was his age. I do know where there's a will, there's a way.

My son has a pretty level head on his shoulders. He's a damn good kid, of my 3 he is the one who is the most responsible and clear headed. Given the fact that this is a netship and the chances of a real life meeting are slim to none, I really don't have much to fear.

I talked with my son last night. I told him why I was upset, what bothered me. I did show him yesterday's post so he could understand where I was coming from. His first reaction to my reaction was that I was being unreasonable because I hate WoW and she's an older woman. His anger with me, prohibited him from actually hearing what I had to say.

We needed the time to cool off and step back. He's still not happy with me for trying to interfere in his life and I'm sure that won't go away overnight. He did tell me that he could understand why I felt the way I did. We talked about relationships in general. It's kind of funny now that I think about it. I've had safe sex talks with him. I've had acceptance talks with him, we have discussed the different types of relationships, but we have never really talked about the do's and don't of a relationship. I think because I felt it wasn't my place to tell him how to structure his relationships, that his boundaries might not be my own. Which is exactly what I was trying to do with this situation.

I told him that I felt that even a netship on the level they have had, was cheating if her husband wasn't aware of the relationship. I would never ever be okay with that. His comment to that was "I don't know if her husband knows we haven't talked about it". So then came the talk about communication and honesty. He said that when she told him she and her husband had a poly relationship that he assumed her husband knew. He did say that if her husband didn't know that he would not continue the personal relationship with her. He like me does believe in Karma and he told me that cheating was not a bitch slap he ever wanted to receive. He said the WoW relationship would continue because the guild was important to both of them. Have I mentioned I really hate this game?

As far as the woman goes, since my boyfriend is in the same guild with her and my son, he suggested that I let him talk to her. I'm not sure it will do any good, but he's said he would explain to her the issues I have with her telling my son to keep it a secret and why we feel the way we do about that. I'm not sure that that is necessary or if will even do any good, but he wants her to know that we are aware of the relationship.

Anyway thanks again for all the kind words, the advice and even the not so kind words.
Thursday, May 8th, 2008
6:09 pm
I found out last night that my 17 year old son has been having a "netship" with someone in his WoW guild. She's a 36-37 year old married woman with a 9 year old kid. She doesn't work. All she does is sit on her ass all day playing WoW and talking dirty to my kid.

Color me mad as hell.
I've cross posted this in 2 other communities so I apologize if you have seen it else where.

I'm not so much upset about the age difference. He will be 18 in September.
I'm upset because
1) She told him to lie to me
2) She is supposedly poly, but I guarantee her husband doesn't know
3) I don't want his first relationship to be with his keyboard.

He's home-schooled. While I'm at work he's on WoW. I'm going to put an end to that though. I'm pretty sure that I can set up a password for him to be able to connect. At least I think that is what Verizon told me when we got the FIOS system. I'll call tech support when I get home tonight and find out.
Tuesday, April 8th, 2008
3:39 pm
Wednesday, February 20th, 2008
11:12 am
It's a little one. One that maybe my guys haven't thought of - but one that's bothering me just a touch. I'll be bringing up with them next time we pow-wow. I would just like to get my thoughts straight on this one.

We are considering moving my OSO in with us for a short time before he moves on to grander things in far away places. This move should be for only a few months should it occur. I won't get into "why" - but allow me to state that it's a practical solution. This thought is just that -- it's still in the "idea" phase of the board.

My youngest (6) absolutely adores OSO. All three of my darlings think of him as a second dad. My 13 yr old included. Of course I don't believe he holds as much love for him as his real father. My 11 yr old rolls with the flow real easy. The opinions of my children are important to me.

So question; I feel we should sit down and talk with the kids during "idea" phase. I do tend to be frank with them. Of course, I don't want to come off as though all of our decisions are based on how the kids take things.... However, they might be truly uncomfortable with the "once a week visit Dad" becoming a live in.

Or should we not get ahead of ourselves (put the cart before the horse, as they say) and decide that this is pretty much what we want to do before letting them in on it. What if we decide not to? Then we possibly put undue stress on the children for no reason. But that is making the decision and then asking them their opinion on it which sounds hypocritical to me.

I'm sorry if this is hard to follow. The words in my head are pretty jumbled and this is about the best way I can state my concern right now. I've edited this as much as I think I can so it would make some sense. I don't even feel as though my concerns are truly drawn well.

It may not sound like much to some, but it is to me. If nothing else, thanks for letting me just sound off.


Current Mood: contemplative
Tuesday, January 8th, 2008
1:17 pm
FPR 2008

The Florida Poly Retreat (FPR) is a regional level polyamory retreat/conference started in 2003 organized by the polyamory communities of Florida.   This year, FPR will be held on March 27-30. 

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